Energy, Passion and Fun with Jessica Lee

Jess Part One

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[00:00:29] Jess: But, you know, I, my, I think my retort at the time was everybody has the capacity to be creative. You know, that, piece of your brain exists that allows people to be creative. Just because I'm not a creative in this industry, in my role in this industry, it doesn't mean that I don't have creativity, that I don't have innovation, that I don't have ideas that I can bring to the table.

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[00:00:58] Ross: Peace Supers. In this episode, I chat with Jessica Lee. Jess is a chartered organizational psychologist and accredited coach with over 20 years of experience across a range of industries, Including fast moving consumer goods, aviation and music, Jess's people soup ingredients are curiosity, flexibility and exploration with a side order of passion and fun. we discuss her international career, including some of the cultural differences she's noticed.

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[00:01:50] For those of you who are new to People Soup, welcome. It's great to have you here. We aim to provide you with the ingredients for a better work life from behavioral [00:02:00] science and beyond. For those of you who are regular, peace supers, thanks for tuning in. Again, we love it that you're part of our community.

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[00:02:17] Paul Flaman as a public course. I've delivered this course to over 2000 adults in the workplace and received astounding feedback, hence my move to offer it more widely, If you keep an eye on my socials, you'll hear more about the program very soon.

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[00:02:54] Jessica Lee, welcome to PeopleSoup

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[00:02:59] Ross: I will thank you. Now Jess, you know we have a research department here at PeopleSoup Towers and they've been doing a bit of digging on you and I'm going to share what they've found to see if they've got it right. They're not always 100 percent accurate.

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[00:03:16] Ross: So it says here, Jess is a chartered organizational psychologist with the Psychological Society of Ireland and an accredited EMCC coach.

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[00:03:27] Ross: Now, just for our

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[00:03:32] Jess: Good question. It's the European Mentoring and Coaching Council.

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[00:03:53] UK, and Australasia.

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[00:04:03] Jess: My brain doesn't believe it when in my face, when I look in the mirror does.

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[00:04:12] experience and then I realize, geez, it's a lot more than that now, Macintosh.

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[00:04:20] go, that

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[00:04:23] Ross: Yes, I hear you. I hear you. Okay, I'll continue. Jess has a proven track record in building results focused people solutions. She has worked from junior to CEO levels across FMCG, fast moving consumer goods, folks, aviation, IT, manufacturing,

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[00:04:49] Jess: Absolutely. And I always say that's kind of one of the main reasons I love what I do is that to me, business psychology or organizational psychology spans all types of industries,

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[00:05:06] Ross: Amen. And it says here you assist businesses to get the best from their people and provide a commitment for business change. And a core focus of your work is on leadership assessment, executive coaching and leadership programs, as well as organizational culture, talent development strategy and team development.

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[00:05:35] warmth, and fun to her engagements with organizations.

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[00:05:43] Ross: And, folks, just to let the listeners know, I'm speaking from personal experience, I've worked with Jess on a couple of big projects where we've been co facilitating and it's been an absolute joy where I've learnt loads [00:06:00] and we've also had fun,

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[00:06:03] Ross: both, between you and me, but also with the organizations we're supporting, the participants on our courses.

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[00:06:16] Jess: Oh dear.

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[00:06:42] Now the rumour has it that the girl

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[00:06:50] Jess: I don't think I, I don't think I do well in double denim.

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[00:06:58] Jess: I'm afraid to say that one is a myth.

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[00:07:01] Jess: a dream, you know, it would have been amazing, but I never, I never had the, the confidence maybe to, to do it. I always, I love a, I love a dance. I love a sing. I love a bit of fun. Did a lot of dancing as a kid. I try to do a lot of dancing as an adult, but yeah, sadly not, sadly not for Bewitched.

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[00:07:30] Jess: Yeah. is,

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[00:07:34] and I think there's one called Blame It On The Weatherman.

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[00:07:41] apt for Arden, really.

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[00:07:46] recently.

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[00:08:09] Ross: Yeah. And if folks are wondering,

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[00:08:14] Jess: born and raised. Yeah,

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[00:08:17] Jess: Well, yeah. My husband likes to call it the Vatican of Dublin.

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[00:08:26] Ross: understood, understood. See, I knew she was posh. So, so Jess, we've heard a little bit about your background and where you are in your career right now. But I wonder if you'd like to share a bit more about your career. Maybe sharing two or three pivotal moments that really stick out for

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[00:08:44] Jess: Absolutely. I think when I think back to my career, the main one that started everything really was doing my master's of organizational psychology in Dublin City University. So I had made the decision to basically when I finished my undergrad that doing a master's that that timing was good for me.

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[00:09:04] Jess: You know some people will obviously wait and get some more experience and go back, but I decided to do it there and then and to me it was one of the best possible things that I could do because for me personally it just felt like a really clear practical application of this is psychology in the workplace.

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[00:09:39] That's what my brain perceived it as. So org psych for me, just made perfect sense. And I was able to, fortunately enough within that master's, uh, it was part time. So I was able to work in a really small consultancy in Dublin and literally transfer my learning each week into the workplace. And it was one of the best possible things that I could [00:10:00] have done because it just helped me make sense of the world of psychology in, in the, expertise in the area that I wanted to be in.

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[00:10:18] Ross: So that sounds like such a gift that you could use the the knowledge and the insights you were getting from your course directly into

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[00:10:29] Having a supportive boss

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[00:10:54] Living and working in Australia

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[00:11:17] And, yeah, stayed for seven years, became a citizen, wasn't expecting that. But in terms of my career, what it meant was, with that relatively short piece of very relevant experience,

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[00:11:39] So, I was pretty lucky to go into a learning and development department of a global FMCG and things just kind of. exploded from there. I think what I noticed in Australia was, don't know whether it was me or at the time or whatever it was, maybe culturally, there was just no question of my gender, my age.

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[00:12:16] Ross: God, it strikes me you have the spirit of adventure in you to, to go there. But also the, the curiosity to go, Hmm. And notice the difference between the, the sort of culture you'd grown up in and the culture there in Australia and think this could be really

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[00:12:39] Jess: Yeah, I honestly think that's a, that's another aspect of something that I

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[00:12:55] So I had to travel around to different locations and then got the opportunity to work in Hong Kong. And again, at a very early age, so it just meant that It really opened my eyes to the cultural similarities and the cultural differences and maybe some naivety around, well, this is an English speaking country, so they're going to be the same as the culture in Ireland, or they're going to be the same as the culture in England.

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[00:13:23] Ross: So you're a real curious gatherer of, of differences and, and similarities as

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[00:13:33] Jess: Yeah, I think my dear dad would have called me a dreamer as a child, but I think, um, what he was seeing was me being quiet and noticing and observing and reflecting and thinking. And I still enjoy doing that. people don't necessarily believe I was a quiet child when they see me now, but, Yeah, I think that, uh, natural curiosity, wanting to understand things, just observing [00:14:00] and noticing and connecting things together is just part of my DNA, I

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[00:14:20] and two sets of noticing on the room. But I notice your capacity to, to join dots and respond to people in a way that makes them feel.

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[00:14:31] Jess: Thank you.

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[00:14:32] Jess: And same to you, you know. I think when we do work in groups, it's great to have the,

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[00:14:59] Ross: yeah, absolutely.

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[00:15:05] Jess: Whoops.

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[00:15:08] citizen.

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[00:15:10] Ross: So do you hold dual citizenship

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[00:15:31] Ross: any other pivotal moments for you?

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[00:15:53] Remember saying I get to work in psychology in music. It is literally my two loves combined. [00:16:00] And just that, that capacity to know that I could do my job, whatever version of that, that was within the learning department, for example, to be able to do that in an industry such as music, and then pivot that to.

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[00:16:36] Ross: yeah, I have to agree, because sometimes when you're entering a new niche in the market, like a new sector, like music, I don't know about you, but I tend to have this glamorous perception of what it's like to work in the music industry. It's like when I first started working with ballet companies. I was like, wow, I'm like some sort of oversized Billy Elliot going in there.

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[00:17:14] Jess: Absolutely.

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[00:17:26] industry?

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[00:17:27] Jess: Good question. Core reflections. Yeah, I suppose one of them would be the point you just made, which was, you know, I suppose we all have assumptions around maybe certain industries and the way they are, the culture that they have, or the types of people that might work there. And they are just that, assumptions. Absolutely. There's, you know, a glitz and glamour element. There's a, you know, you get to go to Abbey Road, you get to see, you get to go to loads of gigs, get to see people on stage, get all that great [00:18:00] stuff. And then within that, there's like any other industry, there's that comes with all its challenges.

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[00:18:32] Creativity

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[00:18:59] But, you know, I, my, I think my retort at the time was everybody has the capacity to be creative. You know, that, piece of your brain exists that allows people to be creative. Just because I'm not a creative in this industry, in my role in this industry, it doesn't mean that I don't have creativity, that I don't have innovation, that I don't have ideas that I can bring to the table.

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[00:19:37] Within all of those different roles and functions and industries. And I remember, yeah, just feeling kind of, in a way, quite hurt about, how dare you call me not creative, I think I'm actually a relatively creative person. and that really resonating with me of, to learn from that myself and to not make those assumptions about other people in terms of any other.

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[00:20:05] Ross: yeah.

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[00:20:08] Jess: Mmm. Oh,

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[00:20:10] lazy as well, isn't it?

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[00:20:30] Ross: Hmm,

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[00:20:39] Ross: yeah, absolutely. And you've hit upon something there for me about the word creative, because I think if you ask the majority of adults in the workplace, are you creative, they'll go, oh no. And in my experience, they tend to relate it to being able to draw a picture or paint.

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[00:20:57] Ross: And I take a much broader view of it and think that people in tech can be creative.

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[00:21:07] accounting can be creative. And I don't mean cooking the books. I mean like, mean like they can be creative in the way they advise their clients or approach businesses. so often adults in the workplace have kind of turned off that switch. And made the story

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[00:21:27] Jess: absolutely. Yeah, I totally agree with that, actually. Because when I think of, you know, most recent kind of innovation type, I don't know, just ideas, thinking type workshops, anything like that, people will go, Oh, well, I'm not the right person for the job here, because I'm, I'm only in finance.

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[00:21:49] Ross: yeah. It's like really tapping into the experts in the organization.

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[00:21:54] Ross: And people sometimes don't value their profession.

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[00:22:03] the

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[00:22:04] Ross: And they might give their, position in the hierarchy. Okay.

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[00:22:14] Ross: Hmm.

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[00:22:26] So, it's an interesting, concept in terms of how people talk to themselves and the language that they use around that that inner voice that we all have that chats away to us and tells us we're just this and we're only that

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[00:22:39] Ross: yeah, and we can buy into that. What about, it strikes me similarly, is leadership,

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[00:23:02] about that.

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[00:23:17] Versus I'm a leader, I

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[00:23:25] so people, I think, tell themselves, or maybe the organization tells them as well, and maybe the actions of the organization and the structure of the organization tells them that they are just a manager, or I am a leader, or, you know, the titles that we then put on ourselves, which I think genuinely, not to sound cliche, but I genuinely think people Everybody could call themselves a leader. Everybody has a role. Everybody has something they bring to the table. It's just finding out what that thing that you bring to the table is.

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[00:24:19] So in that sense, I consider everyone to be leaders, but I also agree with you. Everyone brings something to the table, and we're missing out on that as organizations if we don't seek to hear

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[00:24:33] Leadership Catwalk

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[00:24:37] And you're, strutting up and down the leadership catwalk and people are noticing what you're doing, what you're saying, how you're acting, how you're behaving. and You know, the role of leaders being role models, and that doesn't mean that that equates to a title, but if I'm whatever role in an organization, I can absolutely role model the behaviors that I accept, the boundaries that I want to put in place, how I want other people to treat me, much like you would do in your personal life. you know, understanding this, we have this concept of ourselves in our head, but also the way we talk to ourselves translates into how other people perceive us.

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[00:25:24] Jess: Hmm.

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[00:25:33] Jess: Mm hmm.

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[00:25:41] come across it? Can you, can you recall?

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[00:25:45] Ross: Ah.

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[00:25:48] Ross: Why,

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[00:26:00] I think in speaking with you, in facilitating with you, in reading and understanding and researching more about it, I think it's an incredibly interesting area and I've really noticed much more so in coaching so I think particularly in coaching, because it's a one on one generally situation where people are having a more maybe confidential or trusting, hopefully relationship that they, they feel they can, they can speak more freely, but that what I'm noticing really is more and more people.

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[00:26:53] How can I

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[00:26:57] Um, so maybe I haven't used the best possible language in the world of acts, so apologies for that, but I suppose that's just a one version of what I'm seeing from, from

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[00:27:08] Cultural stereotypes

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[00:27:12] conforming to cultural stereotypes there of of Irish people by apologizing.

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[00:27:19] Ross: something I do notice in the, In the population of Ireland that people are very

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[00:27:26] Jess: Yeah, absolutely. I really noticed that one in Australia

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[00:27:45] So I had to learn to say, excuse me, please, which I think, again, broad statement, I think Irish people think that that's a very blunt, you know, direct,

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[00:28:00] and so it's like, Oh, sorry, sorry.

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[00:28:05] Ross: Yeah. We often

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[00:28:23] well, and can lead to misunderstandings, assumptions, people being direct, what they think is being direct and other people being offended, so it's, it's a whole.

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[00:28:37] terms of cultural differences.

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[00:28:54] Thank you. And Asking for feedback in the room from different people and some people saying, you know, from. My culture from where I live or for where I'm from, that would seem far too direct. That would seem that would come across maybe aggressive. That would be too soft. That would be, and it's just a huge variety of the exact same sentence, the exact same language, but the meaning behind it being hugely different.

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[00:29:26] particular questions or, coaching. Oh,

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[00:29:35] Jess: Mm hmm.

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[00:29:38] Young Jessington

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[00:29:43] Jess: Yeah. Ah, that's it. That's doing the rounds on social media. Write a letter to your 15 year old self.

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[00:29:54] Jess: from

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[00:29:56] Jess: lot of female influencers, dare I say, is a confidence [00:30:00] piece, you know, believe in yourself more.

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[00:30:02] Jess: I think for me personally, I think I was really good at some subjects and just really not great at others. I never found a kind of a happy medium. I wasn't necessarily kind of a straight through the middle. I wasn't at the very top. I was like, either really good at something or just not good at it.

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[00:30:39] So, for me, it was kind of understanding that in the grand scheme of things, those points at the end of the day didn't. really matter. You know, I think I've thankfully found an area that I really enjoy, that I'm hopefully good at. Um, I suppose my point being, you know, really trying to focus on what you enjoy, what makes sense to you, what gives you meaning, is just much more fruitful than trying to be all things to all people, or trying to, trying so hard that you lose yourself, I suppose.

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[00:31:30] Ross: Lovely, thank you. Now Jess, I've got a question I ask all my guests, which often makes them think deep and hard. It's the song choice. The song you would like to announce your arrival in a room, whether it's a real room or a virtual room, and this would be for the next few weeks, it's not forever, but every time you entered that room, this song would play.

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[00:31:52] thinking?

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[00:31:56] how much agonizing I've done over [00:32:00] this. I have asked multiple friends, I've asked family, and I can't tell you some of the answers that came back because some of them were a little bit rude.

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[00:32:10] Jess: and I ended up just sticking with because I'd sit on that question for a year if you let me, is Town called Malice

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[00:32:24] Jess: and ironically enough you mentioned a um, Billy Elliot earlier which is a great song that sits in that movie but the reason I suppose I chose it, not for the lyrics, not for the meaning of the song because it means something particular, but it's just, it's energy, passion and fun and it is one of those songs that if I am in a funk I will turn it on and I will Go into the kitchen and we'll just start dancing around and bouncing around and I just love it.

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[00:33:17] Ross: Whoa.

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[00:33:20] Ross: Goosebumps. And I love it that you chose that, because I didn't know what Jess was going to choose, Peashoopers. I love that because it really represents you to me, that passion, that energy, that fun, it's what you bring to your, to your work and your interactions with organizations. So I think it's a brilliant choice.

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[00:33:40] Ross: And I'm just now sort of imagining you in the mosh pit. Oh,

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[00:33:51] Ross: That's it folks. Part one of my chat with Jess in the bag, but fear not Jess will be back next week when we'll be unpacking leadership development and [00:34:00] sharing our perspectives. You'll find the show notes for this episode at People Soup Captivate fm or wherever you get your podcasts. If you like this episode, I'd love it if you told me why.

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[00:34:43] Now more than ever, you can help me reach more people with the special people, soup, ingredients, stuff that could be really useful for them. So please do share, subscribe, rate, and review.

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[00:35:04] Now the rumour has it that the girl

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[00:35:12] Jess: I don't think I, I don't think I do well in double denim.

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[00:35:20] Jess: I'm afraid to say that one is a myth.