Meet Dr Jill Stoddard

Jill PART ONE

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[00:00:00] Hi there and a very warm welcome to Season 5, Episode 30 of People Soup. It's Ross McIntosh And a big reason for that was when I applied to this very competitive program that I was quite certain I wasn't going to get into, I kept it from my parents because I didn't want them to pressure me to come back home.

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[00:00:38] And so fast forward, I got into the program and that was over 20 years ago. And I still struggle with worrying that the only reason I got in is because my dad played golf with me. the program director and so that, really sparked my interest in this idea of imposter syndrome.

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[00:01:11] But before we talk about the book, let's get to know Jill a bit better. In this episode, you'll hear how Jill's career in psychology evolved, how her prowess in water sports has developed, how she discovered ACT, which is acceptance and commitment therapy, and its impact in her life. you'll also hear about the roots of the book, how she responded to a one star review, And Jill's Song Choice, Which also includes some special guest vocals.

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[00:02:04] And as ever, we are broadcasting from Ginés. A wonderful town about seven kilometres away from beautiful Seville in the south of Spain.

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[00:02:22] It's over four sessions and in partnership with Joe Oliver at Contextual Consulting.

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[00:02:49] And reviews are in for our last episode, which was part two of my chat with Andrew Sewell. Coach and author of The Overthinker's Guide to Life. On Facebook, dear friend of the show, Dr. Rose Horton Smith said, Fabulous part two of your chat with Andrew Sewell.

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[00:03:23] So please do keep listening and subscribing, sharing, and letting me know what you think. If you make some noise about the podcast and our guests, we'll reach more people with stuff that could be useful. And, P Super, speaking of making some noise, Here's one more piece of exciting news.

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[00:04:11] Dr. Jill Stoddard, welcome to PeopleSoup.

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[00:04:17] Well, I am giddy to have you here. I was just saying, I feel like I know you. That's partly because of the book you've written, Imposter No More, Overcome Self Doubt and Imposterism to Cultivate a Successful Career.

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[00:04:33] Sure.

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[00:04:33] And you'll probably be familiar, PeopleSoup has a research department that delve into your background. And they sometimes get things right, they sometimes get things not so right. So I'm just going to read out to you what they've discovered and you can judge whether they've got it right.

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[00:05:17] I don't know where you've been, but you really need to check that out. I mentioned the book we're going to focus on in the second part of this interview, but you've also written two other books.

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[00:05:29] One called Be Mighty, A Woman's Guide to Liberation from Anxiety, Worry, and Stress Using Mindfulness and Acceptance, and The Big Book of Act Metaphors, A A Practitioner's Guide, Experiential Exercises and Metaphors in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy.

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[00:05:46] 100 percent accurate. Your research department did a very good

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[00:05:56] Uh huh. Ooh.

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[00:05:58] um, I got to [00:06:00] read the imposter book myself, but the Be Mighty book is not me, and it's a very surreal experience to listen to someone read your words in a way that isn't consistent with the way you heard it in your head while you were writing it.

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[00:06:14] And I've had friends who have listened to it that are like, Oh, I feel like you should have read this book. Like, they knew the way I would say things, So I was, let's just say I was very, very excited that I got to read my new book on my own.

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[00:06:32] Hmm.

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[00:06:38] Thanks.

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[00:06:52] She regularly appears on podcasts as an expert source for various media outlets. She lives in Newburyport, Massachusetts with her husband, two kids, and a silly French bulldog.

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[00:07:03] is all accurate.

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[00:07:23] Well, I think somebody got that just a little bit wrong and what they, what they may have actually discovered is that I have tried to water ski every single summer of Almost my whole life, probably since I was eight or nine years old and have never been able to actually get up on water skis, no matter how hard I tried, and I had the opportunity to try again this summer, and I happened to turn 50 this year, and I really had this debate.

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[00:08:10] is the year I finally get up on water skis. and I've been doing Pilates for a couple years and I'm much stronger than I used to be. So I decided to go for it. And the first time I got up, I think it was six seconds. And I tried again and I, and I actually did it. I skied around the lake, made it two and a half whole minutes, didn't fall, actually decided I was done because I was just so tired after two and a half minutes.

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[00:08:47] Amen. And it was, it's such a beautiful thing, folks, because it was on social media. I

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[00:08:52] Instagram. There was a day when you were super happy because you'd done

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[00:09:03] And the joy transmitted from you, but also just seeing that was, truly amazing and inspirational.

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[00:09:23] And, you know, I'm somebody, and I'm sure we'll talk about this, but, I live, In accordance with my values as best as I can, and it's important to me to persevere and to have courage and I wanted to model that to my kids too. And I think one of the best parts of that experience was my whole family was in the boat.

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[00:09:58] Oh, and it's, [00:10:00] and it's interesting that you shared that. I found it inspirational. I'm sure others find it inspirational, but that's the... impression I get from the whole book. quite a large part of it is you living your life out loud. And it's so authentic and so powerful, it blew me away.

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[00:10:33] So it was very recent. And then I thought, Oh my God, now people might read it. You know, the whole process takes a couple years, and you do the writing and the editing, and then when it finally comes out, you're like, Oh now people are going to read it. And, you know, there's a lot of really personal stuff in there, so I've definitely been feeling pretty vulnerable this week.

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[00:11:02] Background

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[00:11:22] Well, it's interesting. I feel like in many ways that I've sort of come full circle with this, the book we're going to talk about later. But, you know, I, um, I'll back up to high school, I had two favorite classes. One was, introduction to law, and one was introduction to psychology. And, I was deciding about what to major in in college and then I, interned at a law firm and the psychology deal was sealed at that point.

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[00:12:04] I've just absolutely loved being in this field ever since that time. And so when I, applied to graduate school, I had a mentor in my master's program. I did a master's before a doctor. I didn't know it's different in different countries. Um, And he said to me, now listen, you're going to go off to Boston, which is where I was going to go get my PhD.

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[00:12:26] Imposter

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[00:12:39] How did you know that? Are you reading my mind? And he didn't call it imposter syndrome or anything else. It just sort of blew me away. And I had never heard that term. And, one of the stories I also tell, I think it's the one that starts the book, is I felt, I mean, he was so right.

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[00:12:53] And a big reason for that was when I applied to this very competitive program that I was quite certain I wasn't going to get into, I kept it from my parents because I didn't want them to pressure me to come back home.

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[00:13:25] And so fast forward, I got into the program and that was over 20 years ago. And I still struggle with worrying that the only reason I got in is because my dad played golf with me. the program director and so that, really sparked my interest in this idea of imposter syndrome. But I think at the time, I also thought, well.

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[00:14:05] I realized they still felt these same things too. So anyway, that's, I'm getting a little bit off track, but that's really what sparked this interest in investigating more about imposter syndrome and the imposter phenomenon. I just kind of followed a really linear path that we mental health professionals tend to follow and I did therapy and I did research and I did some teaching, you know, wore all the hats that psychologists wear.

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[00:14:56] to participate in psychotherapy. So that's become like a really important part of my professional identity these days is like I practice psychological flexibility in my own life and it is responsible for me having a life and career that I genuinely love and feel proud of And I want to share that with as many other people as I possibly can so, you know Doing a TED talk was the most anxious I've ever been.

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[00:15:43] That go beyond that voice of you don't have any business venturing into these areas. And anyway, so like that's been so powerful and helpful to me that it's my mission to share that with other people as much as I can. Like by talking to your p supers.

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[00:16:21] Yeah. I agree. I think that is a big part of it. And I mean it's just so funny. You say you're extraordinary and guess what my brain instantly does. No, no, I'm not. What are you talking about? You know, my core belief that comes up the most, ironically, is I'm mediocre. I'm average. It's not like I'm worthless, but it's this like, I'm mediocre.

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[00:17:06] And, if I could teach people how to do that, I would, but I feel like it hasn't, it doesn't really work and it often backfires. And so to be able to, I did a podcast interview recently and she said, would it be fair to say like, do it scared? And I was like, yes, that is a brilliant, simple model.

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[00:17:49] it's just how brains work.

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[00:18:11] And then someone pipes up going, Oh, what I like to do is just chuck all my passengers off the bus. And I don't want to negate that. That could be workable for some people, but what I find for lots of people is those passengers put on a disguise, run down the road and get on the bus two stops down the road and perhaps are even louder than they were before.

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[00:18:32] there's lots of stuff out there with really toxic messages that aren't. Based in evidence and aren't, aren't in my opinion ethical and sometimes it's it makes me feel quite despondent.

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[00:19:12] It's all adaptive, right? It's like our brains trying to protect us from failure and humiliation, rejection and there's an evolutionary, component to that. So I just, it's just not really how we're wired. And I do absolutely think there are certain kinds of thoughts. I don't know if I'm like sitting in traffic and have all sorts of Really negative thoughts about the traffic.

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[00:19:53] I am mediocre. whatever it may be, that it just, they just don't seem quite as amenable to change. And [00:20:00] so why keep, why keep fighting and losing that battle when there's another way? And you can just change your relationship to those thoughts and, let go of that struggle.

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[00:20:09] But I, I'll tell you, I did have, uh, so the book's only been out a handful of days and some people somehow get early copies and read them, so there aren't many reviews yet because everyone else just got the book a few days ago and hasn't read it yet.

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[00:20:39] There's lots of other books that claim to do that. This book is like kind of the opposite of that. So he just, he wanted a different book. And he also didn't like that I talked about, The fact that marginalization may play a role in having these kinds of thoughts and feelings. I think he took that personally as someone who maybe has not had experiences of marginalization, but I've turned this into my own diffusion exercise.

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[00:21:25] But I got this. Right? And it's sort of this way to, like, detach from that thinking and put it, put it over here. Not suppress it, not try to push it away, but just sort of, like, observe it and detach from it. And when I was telling one of my, my friend Emily about this, Kevin review in our back and forth. At one point she said, not today, Kevin.

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[00:22:00] Ah, love it. Love it. Because, I don't know about you, but when, when you hand out feedback sheets after a group event, what are the ones I remember?

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[00:22:10] the ones that said... Ross was quite slow. We're not school children. Or, things along those lines like, he over labored the point, or, his pace was dreadful.

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[00:22:43] Getting a bit of space between us and those thoughts. And doing things like calling that pesky mind, calling that Sheila, it's a beautiful way of just. giving yourself a little space to breathe.

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[00:23:36] This is important to you. So make sure you don't muck it up Don't be so slow. Don't be so whatever because then you might lose all of the people and all the ability to share your message. You know, it's just that like the brains keep us on our toes, but I think we just need to sort of recognize the function of that and not let that, you know, the fear and the negativity drive our choices.

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[00:24:01] Yeah, and it's practice and practice and practice. As you say, you've been practicing Act for a good few years now. And, I like to think, no, it has transformed my life. Because I come from a long line of catastrophizers

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[00:24:16] and I've certainly inherited some of that way of being and I still notice it popping up every day.

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[00:24:27] I love

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[00:24:35] So you have a good imagination, right? Yeah.

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[00:24:49] I think I love to ask groups what they've come up with. I sometimes ask them, if you had to give your mind a name, and one that stands out for me, just recently a really senior leader said, she called her mind, poop in the pool. So she might have this great idea for, for an activity, an event, something to do, and then her mind poops in the pool

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[00:25:14] I love

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[00:25:20] right? Oh, my God. That's so funny.

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[00:25:25] Do you like the movie, um, Inside Out? Have you

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[00:25:45] Right? It's like, it's such a great example of

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[00:25:52] watch that movie.

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[00:25:58] I mean, it could happen. [00:26:00] You never know.

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[00:26:00] Yeah. Yeah. Now, Jill, when, when did you discover ACT? When did, can you remember when you first came across it?

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[00:26:32] And they were using clients at this anxiety clinic where I worked at BU. And they needed a therapist, student therapist to be, in the research study. And so I had the opportunity. To do it and I asked some older students and I actually had a number of couple people say, uh, I don't know if I would take this on if I were you were so busy where we work like 14 hours a day, seven days a week.

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[00:27:11] And of course, it's possible I would have come upon ACT at some point, but I came upon it at a time where it was easy to learn. You know, when I've come across newer therapies, as I'm a little bit later in my career, it just feels harder to take that on.

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[00:27:57] So it luckily started while I was a [00:28:00] trainee, and so I got Exposure to a lot of ACT experts who provided supervision, and I just, that's another one of those things I look back and think. Thank goodness I did not take that advice and I, I worked on that study. Um, because I, started living it in my life right away.

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[00:28:19] Mmm. And you said that was gut instinct, Jill. Do you, do you listen to that in your life?

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[00:28:44] And one of those things was, doing intakes for the clinic at the, this was at San Diego State University. And there's a joint doctoral program between University of California, San Diego and San Diego State University. And I was a master student at SDSU and was able to work in this joint doctoral program clinic and do some intake evaluations for incoming clients.

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[00:29:23] And ever since then, I've paid attention to that body barometer. Like, if I get chills, that is a big sign for me. Like, you need to pay attention and not ignore whatever just caused that to happen. And I don't actually remember if that happened with the early on ACT journey. I wouldn't be surprised if it did, but I do tend to listen to when you have that sense of knowing or what Marshall Lanahan would call wise mind.

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[00:29:46] Song Choice

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[00:30:00] And what song would you choose?

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[00:30:23] So that would be my kind of aspirational song. But the other reason I love it is my nine year old son. often plays this song on repeat when he's in the shower, and he sings it at the top of his lungs. And so it's also something that just, for the rest of my life, will remind me of him singing that song at the top of his lungs, and I just adore it.

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[00:30:58] And like, isn't that really what a girl on fire is? Right? It's sort of like that definition of courage is like, it's not an absence of fear, it's doing things even when you feel fear.

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[00:31:22] There you go. That should be her song.

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[00:31:27] Oh, I just, it took me

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[00:31:32] Pee supers, that's it. Part one of my chat with Jill in the back. I love Jill's energy and something that sticks in my mind is when she shared her response to me calling her extraordinary. It's that kind of role modeling that is so powerful for me. If there's anything that sticks in your mind from this episode, we'd love it if you told us. Next week, we're diving into [00:32:00] Jill's book, so look out for that next Thursday. A big thanks to my producer, Emma, and to our special guest vocalist, Liam. Together, we'd like to reach more people, so... If you like this episode or the podcast, please could you do three things? Number one, share it with one other person. Number two, subscribe and give us a five star review, whatever platform you're on.

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[00:32:50] Thanks to Andy Glenn for his spoon magic and Alex Engelberg for his vocals. Most of all, dear listener, thanks to you. Look after yourselves, peace supers, and bye for now.

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