Coaching, Creativity and The Cramps with Tom Loncar

Tom Loncar 1

Ross: [: 00:00:00

Tom: and a full on

passion. It all worked. Like I was, it was kind of like showing, um, I dunno how to describe it, but it didn't feel depleting or, um, on the road to burnout. It was kind of, um, I guess valued living across three domains. Um, yeah, in fact, that's probably a good way to look at it.

I chat with Tom Loncar, who [: 00:01:00

He's also a contributing writer on leadership to leading business and professional magazines, Including the Australian Financial Review Boss Magazine and the psychologist. That's the official magazine of the British Psychological Society.

Tom's Peoples of ingredients are curiosity and enthusiasm and learning with a side order of backing yourself. Tom discusses his career journey, which was spurred on by influential mentors and personal exploration.

coaching practice and life. [: 00:02:00

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Get a brew on and have a listen to part one of my chat with Tom Long car

Tom Loncar, welcome to People Soup.

Tom: Thank you, Ross.

[: 00:04:00

How we doing?

Tom: Yes, that's that's very accurate, Ross. Good research.

Ross: Thank. you. Now it says here you have an MBA from the Australian Graduate School of Management and an MSC in psychology and the neuroscience of mental health from King's College London. You're a member of the International Coach Federation, PCC accredited and accredited by other leading coaching organizations, the Institute of Executive Coaching and Leadership and the Leadership Circle. He's a contributing writer on leadership, and this is where I discovered you, Tom, to leading business and professional magazines, which have included the Australian Financial Review Boss Magazine.

The psychologist, which is the official magazine of the British Psychological Society, switched on leadership, career panorama, governance directions, and research news.

this can be found on YouTube [: 00:05:00

Tom: Sure.

ember of several bands in the: 1980

and you've supported a bunch of interesting headliners over the years, including Iggy Pop, mud, honey, and the Strokes. What say you, Tom.

um, helped keep me creative [: 00:06:00

Hmm.

Ross: And was that solely singing or was it instruments too?

Tom: mainly singing. sometimes, um, I'd annoy the others by doing things, uh, with like, you know, the, uh, the harmonica. I've also been known to play the accordion, quite inappropriately on occasion, but I do it with great vigor and enthusiasm. So, um,

Ross: I love that Tom. It reminds me of what my colleague at C Uni tells me, well, told me in a lecture to begin with. He actually played the song. It ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it. So when you say with, with great enthusiasm, I think that can add a lot to a situation.

Tom: Yes, yes. Although, you have to be in time and in tune. I remember when I discovered the, the tambourine in the eighties, um, after a couple of shows, the drummer just came up to me and just begged me to stop it. Like I was, I was putting him off. So sometimes, uh, enthusiasm doesn't Trump musicianship,

Ross: [: 00:07:00

Tom: Yes. Well, look, I've been very fortunate to. Be exposed to some great teachers, and they've always been quite instrumental in opening the, the different chapters I've been in. So, you know, in prior to undergraduate university in, uh, year 11, um, in the Australian high school system, I had a, a great economics teacher, um, Kerry Mcyver, who recently passed away.

professor John Rossiter, and [: 00:08:00

And, and that opened up the door to, to consultancy. So I spent, um, Well, more than a decade in, um, market and social research, um, consulting, um, helped build a, a firm called Eureka Strategic Research. And we sold that, um, in 2007 to Ipsos, who you've probably heard of, um,

um, there in Europe. yeah. And, um, so, and then in my late forties, um, Dr. Hillary Armstrong, she opened up my eyes to, to, coaching. And that's where the, the most recent, origins of my current career chapter can be traced.

oss: So I see you as someone [: 00:09:00

Tom: yes. yes. I've, I've done that a couple of times.

Ross: and casting your mind back. Was that a slow growing experience, this sort of, when you came across the professors Rossiter and Roberts, or when you came across, uh, Hillary Armstrong? Tell us a bit more about how that emerged. Was it a boom or was it a kind of thing that developed incrementally? how did it happen?

office sort of realized that [: 00:10:00

So, so that, that, um, it was a very defensive kind of, um, environment. So before that I'd been a, a research economist, so there was a lot more, um, I guess agency, in terms

of agendas and things like that. So, yeah. and in that last, um, economist role, um, the, the group of, um, public servants working next to me. we're looking at management education, and they'd produced a compendium of MBAs across Australia and did a really good,

e, uh, campaign and strongly [: 00:11:00

I dove in.

Ross: So the reason I asked that question, Tom, because I think sometimes if we're looking from the outside on other people's career was we imagine it's kind of a boom. There's a moment where a light bulb goes, and then there's maybe some cherubs join in and some fireworks, and it all happens. But my experience of real life, it's normally a, a slow burn thing.

And I love how you relate it to the sort of

waning of your, the path that you're on, sort of a, a sense of is this it? And also being alert to other opportunities around you to explore. So I think that that sets a more, for me, a more realistic and human tone to what we might imagine to be a

boom, I'm gonna start tomorrow and I'm gonna be this or that.

So thank you for that.

Tom: [: 00:12:00

Ross: Uh, and what was it that that attracted you to the field of coaching when you came across Dr. Hillary Armstrong?

Tom: Yes. Well, that was a, a, a bit of a, um, a slow burn in the lead up as well, in that

sultancy. So that period from: 2010

Ross: I.

Tom: ready to semi-retire.

And, um, that's, I I sort of came across. I guess positive psychology and strengths-based coaching. Like one of my dear friends, um, Alan Watkinson is the principal of the Gallup Organization here in, in Sydney, and he's, he was the first person I've ever heard describe their work as, you know, coaching of adults in organizational settings.

en I did some expiration of, [: 00:13:00

information, uh, evening and, um, yeah, she, brilliant woman. And I was lucky to have her in that level. One initial, stage of training and yeah, it was great experience.

And that, that was: 2013

Ross: Wow. Thank you. So I'm seeing, I'm seeing a definite love of learning here, Tom. And were there moments in your side career, your, your perhaps more creative side career that also had pivots in them?

s. Um, and that we started in: 1998

and a full on

passion. It all worked. Like I was, it was kind of like showing, um, I dunno how to describe it, but it didn't feel depleting or, um, on the road to burnout. It was kind of, um, I guess valued living across three domains. Um, yeah, in fact, that's probably a good way to look at it.

about this or not? and I did [: 00:15:00

Ross: Oh, wow.

Tom: No. So it was, um, um, you know, that, that, that sort of review was due, but it was, um, it was also, you know, like, like in Canberra for example, it was quite easy to, to keep the, performing Tom and Economist Tom separate, with only a few trusted folk being invited in.

Ross: Hmm.

Tom: but it happened there as well. Yeah.

Ross: Oh, Tommy, you make me wanna go back to the origin story of your, involvement with, with Ben's. how did it start? Was it, was it from your school days?

Was it.

Tom: Not at all. no encouragement at all? Um, during, uh, primary school or high school. It was just a, a new thing, um, I guess, late teens.

the Cramps and, and it kind [: 00:16:00

And, you know, we, I was living in Hobart, you know, I'm from Hobart, Tasmania. And that, that punk rock aesthetic was, was truly alive there. And then, um, I heard about an amateur night at the university, bar when I was in, I think that was second year as an economic student. Yes. And, uh, amateur. And we put together. the Def Leppards and we came second and it was really, um, we were doing three songs by The Cramps. I don't know if you know The Cramps, but they were, um, fantastic, uh, New York Band. Um, they invented their

own genre, uh, voodoo Psychobilly. it was like rockabilly, but more dangerous and uh, and uh, yeah.

Ross: Yeah. I remember the, the cramps from, university, from the student disco night.

Tom: Well they were huge in the uk.

Ross: Yeah. Wonderful.

I love this preparedness to explore and be curious, Tom,

Tom: Thanks Ross.

u think that serves you well [: 00:17:00

Tom: Well, yes, yes. Like I had, um, I, I wanted to do, further deeper study into

coaching psychology or, you know, related sort of, domains, in about 20 16, 20 17. And that's how I did the, the research and located that, um, master of Science with King's College London, which was a, a distance program.

But the

important thing in there was that there was, um, like a, a third of the focus was. On a dissertation. So I, I could look at, you know, it wasn't just doing the subjects, you know, the, the mandatory ones and then the optional ones. There was, there was something I could really deep dive into and that's, that's where, in a roundabout way, that's where, um, psychological flexibility and act really presented as, um, something worth looking at more deeply.

Ross: and I would, I would hazard a guess that your clients benefit from this,

ing, this curiosity and your [: 00:18:00

Tom: Yeah.

Ross: I think that will I reckon that will come out in your coaching sessions and, and make it beautifully inquisitive and, and natural from the client perspective. Now I'm doing a bit of a mind reading there kind of, but um, I'm sure those qualities will show with your clients.

So you've mentioned act, which, uh, listeners will know about acceptance and commitment therapy. But tell me more about when you discovered that.

, um, I think it was in about: 2016

Leadership Circle 360. Have you heard of that

Ross: I haven't heard of that particular

one. No term.

r in Australia. Um, but, but [: 00:19:00

it also has that sort of adult development, developmental psychology kind of, foundation to it. And so, in moving, uh, into coaching, there was this strong message that everyone needs to have a, a 360 to use and to, you know, to recommend in, in certain client context. So, I chose the leadership circle. it was getting wide acceptance, um, in, in corporate Australia.

was an in-person training in: 2016

And that was, that had a, you know, a deep impact on me in terms of, um, [00:21:00] its usefulness

Ross: mm

I love the way you're relating the 360 to cognitive diffusion this, this capacity to change the relationship with. Some, some thoughts that that might be quite unhelpful. And it's, you're right, it so resonates with a 360 process, having done many of them myself and also coached leaders through lots and lots of 360

feedback.

it's the, it could just be three words

Tom: Hmm.

Ross: in a 360 feedback that stick with that person. And you guarantee, you guarantee. It's not the three words that says you're bloody marvelous.

It's the three words that say something a little bit critical or a little bit spiky. That's what they remember.

And quite often they'll remember it in a way that is not sort of curious and kind to themselves or the other person.

t's kind of like, I know who [: 00:22:00

Tom: Absolutely. There's conspiracy theorizing that takes place. Yeah.

Ross: Yeah.

So I can see how attractive that would be from, from Vanessa. And then you came across it again, if I'm, if I got this

right.

Tom: Yes. Well, in, my master's dissertation, like, I wanted, well, I started off looking at interventions for boosting self-confidence in leadership development. And, you know, that's, that's a pretty, uh, sort of specific, kind of, um, area with not much research around it or not much sort of, peer reviewed research out around it. But the gateway was, there's a lot of research on, act being applied for public speaking anxiety. So, so that was kind of like a, something congruent with the organizational settings I was, I was looking at.

hat, self-confidence is only [: 00:23:00

you. And through that process, um, I gained sort of a wider lens on this issue of self-confidence. Like it's not just about you, it's about where you're at and how people experience you and what's sustainable, in the longer run.

Ross: lovely. And did you find the act had an impact on your own life, Tom?

Tom: Oh, abs, absolutely. I do tend to overthink things. So the the diffusion, um, idea is, and the

o the, the ACT matrix, which [: 00:24:00

Ross: I love that portable intentionality.

I'm a big fan of the Act matrix. I find it something that's really, like you say, it's, it's quite easy to explain and quite easy for another person or a group of people to see its potential and it has depth to it as well. It has features and, uh, can deliver insights that can be quite profound.

Tom: Yes.

advice you'd offer young Tom [: 00:25:00

Tom: Back yourself.

Ross: Great.

Tom: Hmm. Say no more often.

Ross: Yeah, it's very timely. 'cause I've been speaking to a lot of leaders over the last

months and I love the way you describe it as back yourself. 'cause I talk about having your

own back.

Tom: Hmm.

Ross: It's, it's the same, isn't it? So I think when we begin to doubt ourselves that sense can seep in.

Tom: Hmm. Hmm.

Ross: Gradually that perhaps everything is gonna go wrong and we don't know what we're doing,

and just reminding people of what they've achieved over their, their careers or their their lives can really help them recognize that that inner light, that inner strength.

Tom: Hmm, hmm.

Ross: Tom, I've got a question I ask all my guests, which is about a song choice, a song that would announce your arrival in a room, whether it's a real room or a virtual room. Do you have a, a song in mind? And, and why?

Why have you picked [: 00:26:00

Tom: Yes. Well, my, that song for me is the Way I Walk By the Cramps, which is, um. Just a way of asserting your individuality. And I've got a, uh, bootleg recording of them in front of a, uh, skeptical audience and, uh, Lux Interior. their late singer, he just shouts out and we ain't like nothing else, no place else in this entire universe. And that's because, and then it goes, the way I walk is just the way I walk. And so it's, uh, it might not mean much to peace supers, but, um, it's, we all have our own, I guess, special songs with a, a special feeling that the song invokes.

Ross: Well, thank you. Thanks for making that. That's so personal to you as well.

Tom: And Ross, I do have a, a second choice. So,

Ross: Ah, tell me more.

m, my go-to song is Rockaway [: 00:27:00

So it's, it's a New Year's Eve audience in 1979, and they just go for it. So it's, um, very exuberant.

Ross: Brilliant. Thanks. I'll allow two song choices because they're slightly different context. There's one for arrival and there's one to,

Tom: Yeah.

Ross: to really get going, so thank

you.

ave been some changes on the [: 00:28:00

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Tom: I've been exposed to the, the ACT matrix, which I, I think of as something that is like portable intentionality. So this situation, towards moves versus away moves it's a simple, but um. widely applicable thing that just takes a, you know, a couple of minutes of, um, of consideration. Um