Meet Kerry Cullen

Kerry Part One

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[00:00:00] Ross: Hi there, and a very warm welcome to Season 5, Episode 41 of PeopleSoup. It's Ross McIntosh here.

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[00:00:49] I always think kind of just getting deeper with the answers to that, but that's, that's always a guide for me is how can we be resourced and remember the resources that we have within us that are already there. How do we remind each other of that?

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[00:01:22] From her days growing up in Bury, Manchester, to settling in Ireland between Donegal and Dublin.

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[00:01:48] [00:02:00] Now, for those of you who are new to PeopleSoup, welcome! Hi! hello, and a very warm welcome to the community. We are an award winning podcast Where we share evidence based behavioral science in a way that's practical, accessible, and fun. Our mission is to unlock workplace potential with expert perspectives from contextual behavioral science.

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[00:02:45] Very cool applications. Well, I absolutely agree, Aprilia, and thanks to everyone who listened, rated, and reviewed that episode. We'll shortly be launching the new PeopleSuit bookmark, and each review that's read out will receive one, wherever you are in the world. My dad, also known as Big G, is setting up the global distribution desk as I speak.

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[00:03:18] I think that's enough excitement for one episode, so, for now, get a brew on and have a listen to part one of my chat with Kerry Cullen.

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[00:03:35] Kerry: Thank you, Ross. It is a delight to be here and thank you for inviting me.

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[00:03:51] Kerry: Delighted to be here. I really am.

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[00:04:24] Kerry: So far, so good.

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[00:06:28] Kerry: Actually it's really relaxing me that we're doing it this way.

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[00:06:32] I love

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[00:06:33] Ross: Brilliant. Brilliant. Now, Kerry, the research department also came across something a bit more sketchy.

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[00:06:41] Bring it on, Ross.

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[00:06:43] Kerry: Yeah.

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[00:06:50] Kerry: Is that a flat?

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[00:07:09] Kerry: Oh, fantastic.

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[00:07:20] Kerry: I would love to think I was almost a kitten, but I'm afraid in this area, no, I was not nearly a kitten, but I love to think that I could have been in a different life.

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[00:07:45] it just made me think maybe the research department is true. Maybe they've nailed this.

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[00:07:54] Ross: I like to think so, Carrie. Can you hold a tune?

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[00:08:10] Ross: Excellent. I don't want it. Let's not go there. Let's not go there. And, Carrie, thanks so much. What I'd love to do is just unpack that a bit more, if we may. I'd love to ask how you've got to where you've got to today. Tell us a bit more about your career, maybe some pivotal moments in your life growing up, and let's just listen to find out a bit more about you.

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[00:09:04] But actually through my career as, as working as a psychologist, I've also found myself doing quite a lot of somatic training. I'm trained as a yoga teacher and different somatic therapies. And to my delight, it's become a both and. being able to weave together those different elements and polyvagal theory, which I know we're going to talk about in more detail.

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[00:09:52] I always think kind of just getting deeper with the answers to that, but that's, that's always a guide for me is how can we be resourced [00:10:00] and remember the resources that we have within us that are already there. How do we remind each other of that?

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[00:10:15] in finding themselves.

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[00:10:18] Ross: Because I think it's, it's very human for us to just feel Adrift, disconnected, Non resourced.

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[00:10:51] So we can feel really lost, but actually we're, we're very close to coming home to ourselves. So I love that notion that, you know, at times when we do feel lost, we're on the right track. It's part of the process.

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[00:11:26] And was It St.

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[00:11:28] Kerry: don't know, but St Monica's was a sister school. You see, if I'd gone to St Monica's, maybe that could have happened. But I went to St Gabriel's in Bury. so what was I like? Well, I'm the oldest of four children. And if I'm honest, I'd say, you know, I was quite fun loving as a teenager and then kind of between the ages of 16 and 18, I'd say I became quite serious as, as, as a teen and at the time my mum wasn't very well.

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[00:12:22] And I wasn't sure what I was going to do. And then, uh, my cousin was moving back to Donegal, to Buncranagh, a very rural part in Ireland. I said, why don't you come with me, you know? So I remember being this teenager of, oh, you know, that doesn't particularly sound like very inviting. You know, I was a real city kid at the time, but ended up going with her.

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[00:13:06] Ross: Gosh, that's amazing. So I have to think about the decisions we make in life and the implications of those decisions and how. How connected do you feel? What was that sense of connection like? Is it, is it something physical looking back on it? Is it just thinking, I'm home?

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[00:13:47] Ross: And by this point were you studying or is this when you were applying to study

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[00:14:17] I was not a good waitress. I have a poor history in food services. I also sold a plastic cake once when I was a teenager.

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[00:14:31] Kerry: Well, I was working in a bakery in Bury, so this is going back now before I moved over to Ireland, and it was actually Christmas Eve, and I was dressed as a bear,

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[00:14:45] Kerry: and of course I was, and my manager was dressed actually as a little girl in like Bo Peep, so you can picture this scene, and she comes into the shop and she starts screaming, and she says who has sold the Plastic cake out of the window and I started laughing because I didn't know we had a plastic cake So I thought this was really funny Then she started to describe the plastic cake as who sold the plastic chocolate log Then I had this memory of selling this chocolate log, which actually felt quite light So I then had to own up that it was me that had sold Plastic chocolate log out of the window on Christmas Eve dressed as a bear

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[00:15:41] Kerry: If I'm honest, it was actually my last day of working there.

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[00:15:46] Kerry: I think it could have been anyway.

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[00:15:57] remembers one Christmas when they had a [00:16:00] plastic chocolate log,

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[00:16:02] Ross: do get in touch, you can complain directly to Kerry.

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[00:16:17] Ross: Yeah, it's, it's sort of custom.

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[00:16:21] Ross: I love that. I love those family customs and things that, Godown in the Family Chronicle, yeah. so where did you do your studies? Where did you study psychology?

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[00:16:49] So I studied there and then did my masters over in Manchester, in UMIST. And, and in between had a, a, had a year of, working in market research and got to travel in the Caribbean for a year, managing research projects over there. So that was a really interesting time of life.

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[00:17:10] Kerry: Yeah, so it was actually, it was, I think it was the third year of college, it was like a year placement, so I landed this placement and that's what it involved,

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[00:17:26] Kerry: Yeah, I, I suppose so. Yeah.

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[00:17:32] Kerry: Almost. Yeah. Almost got there. almost.

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[00:17:49] Kerry: So finished at UMT and then moved back. Well, I'd just been in, in Manchester for the year, so then I came back and lived in Dublin and I worked [00:18:00] with an organizational psychology firm. as a, as a psychologist with them, and if I'm honest, Ross, I, I lasted a year

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[00:18:38] So actually at that point, I, resigned from my position and actually went travelling for a while. So I travelled to Australia for a while and I came back and I actually set up my own consultancy and I look back now, Ross, and I think it's, it's quite amusing because I was quite young. And I was just very lucky because I remember I'd landed a big project and this wonderful professor of mine from UMIST worked with me on the project, and Dr.

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[00:19:27] Ross: But I, I love it that I see that boldness. I see creativity from you. And I also see You're just pausing to see what the heck really matters to me. When you, when you

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[00:19:43] do that matters?

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[00:20:55] And I got this bolt up through my body and it was like, yeah, that's you.

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[00:21:01] Kerry: Yeah. So that was one of those moments. And I just remember it so clearly. I, I was off track. You know, there are many people that work and have children and, and get a really good balance. But at the time I hadn't, I was off track. And that was one of those moments that was like that jolt of, you know, well, what really matters.

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[00:21:44] What are really my gifts? So it was at that that stage in my life when I really looked at that weaving in the somatic with the coaching work and and at the same time taking time out to be with the boys as well.

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[00:22:42] Kerry: yeah, so it's about five years ago now when I was experiencing some symptoms, which led my doctor to send me for an MRI. And so I'd gone for my MRI and then I got a call to meet with a neurosurgeon and You know it's interesting looking back because you know when you're asked to go and meet with a neurosurgeon it should be a bit of a flag that there could be something going on.

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[00:23:28] And, you know, so anyway, we sit down and then he breaks it to me that from my recent MRI, that it looks to him like I need to have brain surgery. And the brain surgery, which he felt that I needed, was quite complex and actually ran quite a lot of risks in terms of bodily function after I recovered. So that was definitely one of those pivotal moments that has a very clear, you know, before [00:24:00] and after it was, quite a profound thing.

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[00:24:42] These kind of thoughts that are very overwhelming to deal with. And then in polyvagal terms, that really helped me have a framework to understand what I was experiencing, and it really helped me navigate. working through this time in life. So there's that, there's that sense of, you know, that overwhelm.

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[00:25:12] Ross: now Kerry, I know that map helped you have a conversation with the, the surgeon, with the consultant that changed direction of things slightly.

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[00:25:26] Kerry: Yeah. So, you know, thinking about the map in Polyvagal, it's, it's when we're feeling safe and connected that we can access our sense of curiosity and collaboration. So with that diagnosis and the overwhelm that comes with it, there is that sense of loss of agency and, and sitting with a lot of fear with that.

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[00:26:22] I was able to have these moments, I would say, of curiosity of, well actually, you know, maybe it doesn't have to be brain surgery. And I remember going back to my consultant and us sat together and really focusing on bringing that sense of calmness and regulation into our conversation. And, and I asked him and said, you know, would it be possible to get a second opinion outside of the jurisdiction?

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[00:27:03] Ross: Hmm.

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[00:27:18] Ross: Wow. My goodness, and I love that the, you'll know that we've spoken about it before, that my dad talks a lot about, sort of synchronicity, he calls it, and that this diagnosis came when you were already studying polyvagal, so you're actually putting polyvagal into practice, and if I've got it right, is it by noticing the resources around you that would help you with it? Reach that place of curiosity and, and calm. Is that right?

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[00:28:17] Ross: Hmm. So it's like that noticing without judgment.

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[00:28:25] Ross: Got you. And it's like in, in act terms, we talk about noticing with curiosity and kindness and that's kindness to people around you, but also kindness to yourself. What kind of blows my mind is that I think many of us as humans will have a diagnosis like that and go, Okay, so another human in a white coat is telling me this, so it must be true. But using Polyvagal, it allowed you to be curious and more open. And also to involve him, the surgeon, in that collaborative piece.

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[00:29:00] Ross: So Kerry, there's a question I ask all my guests, and it's for a song choice. And the idea is that this is a song that would announce your arrival in a room, for the next few weeks slash months. So when you're going to the supermarket, when you arrive back in your house with all those boys. It's a song that would just say, hey, Kerry's here. So what, what would that song be for you?

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[00:29:50] And why I like this song, there's something, there's something very soothing in when I listen to it. And the sentiment, some of the words are don't be afraid of the [00:30:00] dark. And there's a real sentiment of, of people being together and, and light coming in. And I just, it's a song that I find when I listen to it, it's like a holding that can let me touch into some heartbreak in terms of what's going on in the world and it's like a glimmer of light.

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[00:30:50] So we're going to speak a bit more about that in

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[00:32:10] Kerry: yeah, no, I'm, I'm, I'm really enjoying it, Ross. You know, you've, you've, you've just got such a, a lovely presence and you're very co regulated. So,